I always wondered, with the animals...what about arctic animals, penguins, polar bears etc...how would they stay cold -- ? some odd cold area but there was no electricity as we know it so how would the cold temperatures be regulated for their survival?
And how would Noah have gotten the animals native to North and South America onto the Ark when Columbus didn't even set sail for the Indies and accidentally bump into the island of Haiti/Dominican Republic until 1492. Also, taking only 2 of each animal would mean that all of their offspring would be INBRED and they would have all died pit due to their not being enough genetic variation! The largest wooden British Warships were only 175 ft. Long and the Ark would have had to be dozens of times bigger than that
John, The animals where not scattered at the time, they still were around or in the garden of Eden, only Adam & Eve (man kind) were kicked out of the garden for their sins
So why did the animals get "scattered" later? Did they sin?
Thank you I agree
John, most of the issues you raise are addressed in the book, "Noah: The Real Story." The real answer is frequently, we don't really know. Noah did not leave a journal and the Bible doesn't tell us. But we can make assumptions about how things could have happened.
So if it could have happend so many years ago. Then you should be able to do it again today, right?
I don't think inbreeding was such a problem then as it would be today, the gene pool was much purer-- think of the first humans they had to inbreed to populate the earth.
Also, the other questions are interesting to ponder; but with God directing the whole thing I believe He could make anything happen to accommodate the need.
Saying "All things are possible with God" in answer to questions like these is nothing more than mere hand waving. The amount of food necessary to feed that number of animals for a year would have taken more space and weighed more than the animals themselves. The fewer explanations of "God did it." that are necessary to carry this out, the more believe alb it is. explaining the impossible with "we don't know" is a cheap copout.
I can appreciate your wanting answers, but in many instances, we don't know an answer.
For instance, What did Noah do with all the waste generated by the animals? John Woodmorappe has come up with a creative explanation. He says, "The key to keeping the enclosures clean was to avoid the need for Noah and his family to do the work. . . . One possibility would be . . . " (it's in the book). But did Noah use John's system. He might have. But we don't know. That's the most honest answer.
I'm reminded of what a friend of mine said yesterday: "I cannot answer all your questions about the Bible; I cannot even answer all my questions about the Bible." But because we cannot answer all our questions doesn't mean we should throw it out!
One thing is for sure,how can you on one hand say " all things are possible with GOD but don't believe the things that GOD done in the bible".
Like the author said, you either have to take the bible literally or it's a metaphor of spiritual matters hidden in parables and stories.
Of the world wide flood records, that is a stretch, floods are world wide and mostly local, but to the inhabitants then it would seem like a global catastrophe so stories where written or modified to suit their culture and understanding.
I don't accept the tradition interpretation of the bible as their is too many mysteries that don't support the creationists claims, and not even the believers who frame it within science parameters. We are in a different paradigm to that old religion perspective.
Number of species on Noah's Ark: 16,000 (or less).
Number of species on Earth today: 7,000,000 (or more)
Time since the events of Noah: 6,000 years (or less).
Number of new species per day since Noah's Ark: 3.5. **
So when you wake up tomorrow, there will be three to four entirely new species of animal on the planet. There will, of course, be a portion of your daily paper which outlines the new, daily discoveries of these creatures. No? Guess why.
**The number per day is a minimum. The numbers used above are all in favor of the Ark story. Decreasing the number of initial animals, or the time lapse, or increasing the number of modern species means the number per day goes up. The closer numbers (16K species then, 7.7M species now, and 4K years) leads to an answer of 5.2 new species every single day.
@Dale, God must be hiding those animals from man's sight- there are many jungles and forests where those new animals could be. besides, how do you know God didn't expand the number of species after the animals got off the ark? Maybe while the kangaroo was hopping back to Australia after the flood but before the land bridge collapsed was enough time for new species to come into existence.
This is really hard to read.
God made a process to make more kinds of animals. It's called evolution.
Did anyone even think about what they were reading/writing?
One of each family guarantees that the genus must come from the family, pretty much guaranteeing that there must be some form of evolution, so reducing the numbers to fit on the ark is really peculiar logic since it requires the thing being argued against.
Can you even imagine how violent getting rid of a land bridge to Australia in a time span of a few thousand years would be? You'd need unbelievable erosion even if it was just a beach shoal at the beginning.
If the animals were in the Garden of Eden, so therefore collection wasn't difficult, how did they spread over a few thousand years? How's a jaguar going to get to South America? Without any modern boats or planes? No land bridge there.
I'm bewildered by the contortions folks have to go to try to make something fit the Bible. I'm much happier assuming that God intended us to use our brains and see the evidence He left us of geology, fossils, etc, than to assume the bible isn't being figurative or mistranslated or anything.
Each section of the Ark would need to provide the exact ecological habitat (of which there are thousands) needed for each animal's survival - water fresh salt still running swamp, controlled temperature tropical temperate arctic, trees bushes grassland sand rocks marsh for each continent and temperature zone, live food sources plants, insects prey species - very many animals could not digest or dried meet and have very specific nutritional requirements etc. (flood damage would also have destroyed many of the habitats that the animals would need for post-flood survival, taking many years to get sufficiently re-established to support a viable population).Without the proper conditions, most animals on the Arc would die of stress, infection, starvation. Modern day zoos have a huge challenge caring for animals, backed up by ecology and anima medicine, and some species just will not thrive in captivity. The explanations given on this page are so implausible that they don't merit serious consideration.
Kevin; Humans and animals did not eat meat before the flood.
Genesis 1: 29 & 30 Genesis 9: 3 & 4 God tells man he can eat meat
So no predators or carnivores before the flood, and all the carnivorous species we have today been created/evolved since? Or were all carnivores previously herbivorous?
Where did Noah get a continuous source of fresh eucalyptus leaves to accommodate the Koala's?
We don't know, of course. We can speculate -- the Koala's went into hibernation (that's how Darren Aronofsky explains it -- or the God who brought the Koalas to the ark somehow brought eucalyptus or the Koala's dependence on eucalyptus is a more recent development. But the most honest answer is we don't know. The other part of the honest answer is that just because we don't know doesn't prove it didn't happen.
Banging my head against the wall. Ok for you to say I don't know is ok. But when a "non believer" says I dont know, that is assumed to be proof of god. Yes, I used lower case. Going to hell I guess.
Save your head, Angelo. Larry Stone says 'we can speculate' - that's all there is to it, nothing more.
Larry, at the end of your book's introduction chapter you rightly state that we have to ask the literalists to explain the feasibility of Noah's Ark. This is not quite a burden of proof - as you say above, we don't know - but it is very similar. Without proof, the next best test might be the 'balance of probabilities' of the truth of an explanation. Having read the book, the site and the comments, I have to say that you have been able to show pretty conclusively that the speculations for the literal explanation are so highly improbable, given what we what we know of the world today and through history, that the alternative non-literalist explanation is by far more successful on the balance of probabilities. Unless, that is, you allow for supernatural explanations as you do above, in which case anything could happen and there is no need to debate how feasible or not something might have been - end of debate!
What's your thinking?
Tim, can't answer for Adult (what a ridicilous nick) but I think you put the thing quite beautifully. This whole text is just continuous excusing of the gaps in the story with "we don't know but it could've been so".
Just a couple of minor pointers. If all the animals lived in the garden of eden why haven't we found a huge pile of fossiles indicating the place, instead we find fossiles only neatly layered in all over the world.
Did the Koalas piggyback on kangaroos to Australia with their sacks of eycaluptys leaves and seeds?
Where is the evidence of the "microevolution" of some feline "kind" evolving from a herbivore to a carnivore, should be a plenty since it could only date max 4k yrs back in time?
The below mentioned minor dilemma with salinated or fresh water, never mind its origin, either the salt water fish or the fresh water fish would've died in the best case both. Etc, etc
The only answer for the rooters of the literary story seem to have is to invent an endeless stream of new unlisted miracles in order to have to story work.
Were there snakeson the Art. The bible two of its kind creeping things male and female?
The Bible does not specifically mention snakes, but it does say that God told Noah to take "two of . . . every creeping thing of the ground, according to its kind" onto the Ark. That would included snakes
you mention sea animals would not need to be on the ark. This is not true. Unless rain is salt water (which it isn't because it can't be), all that freshwater falling down for that long would have changed the salinity of the oceans, and as such, would have killed off a LOT of sea creatures.
Good observation. I don't know enough to respond, but I do know that the water causing the flood was not just rain. Genesis 7:11 says, "All the fountains of the great deep were broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened." The water came not just from the rain, but from the "fountains of the great deep." There's nothing said about the salinity of water from the fountains, but it's not a sure thing that all the added water did not contain salt. By the way, the image of the fountains of the great deep in the Darren Arronofsky movie was one of the best things in the movie.
The answer is so simple its ridiculous.
Let's get to the terminal issue instead of its derivitives. How did a normal earth turn into a water "earth" then back again in aprox. a year? If the Creator can originate it then EVERYTHING else is without question possible and He was certainly assisting Noah. Because it isn't or can't be in your mind certainly does not mean it can't happen, because it certainly did. But, if you ever do find out, think of all the good things you could have done with your time, instead of arguing with God.
Donny, I agree with your first statement, if the flood Genesis 7, 10-12 was caused by Divine intervention rather than natural causes then everything else in the story would also be possible, again by Divine intervention into natural processes, so there is no point in speculation about how it could have happened.
The rest of your message makes no sense, what is your point?
Where the dogs come from bc the wolf and dogs wasn't on that boat
God told Noah to take "two of every sort of . . . animal after their kind" into the ark. That would have included dogs.
Yet again, this is poor thinking. Following this line of thought, you can have absolutely anything and everything going into the ark. With the greatest respect to you, Larry, how long do you think that you can avoid seeing the absolute absurdity of your arguments? I guess you have too much personally invested in them, and that clouds your vision. That's a shame, I am sure you are a decent guy.
Tim, not poor thinking, but different presuppositions. Let me give an example unrelated to Noah.
Daniel (an Old Testament prophet) claims to have had a vision about 550 BC in which God made specific predictions about the Greeks conquering the Persian Empire and the Greek Empire then dividing into four sections – all of which happened 200 years later in 334 BC. The Bible’s presupposition is that God can predict the future. Some people presuppose that such prophecy does not occur. Is it any surprise that those who share the Bible’s presupposition that God can predict the future say that the book of Daniel was written in the 7th century BC, while those who presuppose that supernatural prophecy does not occur say Daniel was written in the 3rd century BC?
It’s not a matter of interpretation or poor thinking; it’s a matter of presupposition.
Larry, thanks very much for your response.
Firstly, I am a bit puzzled by your description of the dates around the Book of Daniel and the specific predictions, would you be able to clarify?
Secondly, your point about presupposition makes my point well - you presuppose what the answer will be so any rational argument or evidence is not required. Makes any discussion about 'what really happened' rather pointless. What is it that is stopping you recognise this?
Best wishes, Tim
The book of Daniel in the Old Testament talks about events that occurred in 334 B.C. The way it is presented is that God told Daniel these things before they happened. When was the Book of Daniel written? If you presuppose that God cannot or does not predict future events, you have to say that Daniel was written after 334 B.C. If you presuppose that God does predict future events you can date the book of Daniel two hundred years before 334 B.C.
Does that help?